Glock 23 Machine Pistol Configuration Part Four

'FSSG Full-Auto Accuracy'
The Drop-In FSSG that I have been using has worked well in terms of providing select-fire capability to my Glock 23 reliably, but I do have one issue with it, and that is in terms of ACCURACY when shooting it at full auto.

I first noticed when I saw that the spread of shots at 10 meters was quite large. The first shot would be dead on, but then the second and third shots would be way off by a couple of inches from eacch other. A rough estimate would be like this: If I aim at the bottom of the target, the first shot would hit spot on the lower right side of the abdomen, then the second would be on the chest area on the left side of the chest of the target, and finally the third shot on the left shoulder or left side of the face area of the target (see picture below).



I found this a bit strange, because the other metal FSSG that was given to me shot quite good at 10 meters (see my previous blog here). With everything else the same (i.e., same configuration, same distance, same ammo, etc.) from the pictures it looked like the metal FSSG was shooting tighter groups by about 3-4 inches.

I can't really say for sure how this came about, but my main suspect is the problem is in terms of the LOCK TIME BETWEEN SHOTS. I suspect is the issue, because when I do the Dry-Fire Test I described on another previous blog, the slide sorts of pauses a bit when it is near the end of its travel, before it goes right thru and releases the Striker.

Glock 23 Machine Pistol Configuration Part Three

'Fab Defense FGG-S'
I chose the Fab Defense FGG-S Tactical Folding Grip over other picatinny foregrips out there, mainly because it definitely was made for the Glock in mind, as it does not only attach to the rails, but also on the lower part of the frame, and the front of the trigger guard. This provides more area to distribute the force applied of the foregrip. This minimizes the flexing of the frame when using the foregrip.

It even has a hook-like protrusion at the upper front of the grip that protects your finger from the muzzle blast. Another item I bought online, which arrived about a week later. The only problem with the grip, is that there is a bit of a gap between the FGG-S and the front area of the trigger guard. This gap allows the frame to flex a bit too much, increasing the gap between the slide and the frame, which I was afraid was going to cause malfunctions.

I decided to put some material to fill that gap between the FGG-S and the frame/trigger guard by using 3M double sided tape (used only one side, kept the backing of the other side intact). I used three layers of the 3M tape to effectively fill that gap, and they seem to work very well in minimizing the the flexing of the frame when force is applied to the FGG-S.



One thing to remember when attaching this grip, is to ensure that you don't overtighten the screw, as Glock says that tightening the screws too much of any attachment on the Picatinny rail will cause the gun to malfunction. There really is no need to tighten too much the screws for this grip, the screw is caught between teeths that keep it from moving back and forth anyway. So just use enough force to lock the screw lightly in place.

My Glock 23 Review Part Five

'Reloads on Stock Barrel'
There has been a lot of written articles about not using Teflon reloads on the stock .40S&W Glock barrel as this would be prone to the kaBoom! or kB! issue. I thought about getting one of those aftermarket barrels which Twin Pines is selling for P7.5k, they are also recommended for shooting Teflon reloads, but then I noticed that a lot of Glock .40S&W owners also has been saying that they have been using Teflon reloads on their stock Glock barrels, so I decided just take a chance and start using reloads. Besides, I just could not afford to keep shooting brandnew FMJ ammo at P21.50 per pop.

As of this writing, I have shot around 950 rounds of Semi-Wadcutter Teflon reloads on my Glock, of which 350 rounds was fired at full auto, and so far I have had no serious issues yet. I do understand the risk, perhaps one of these days I will regret this action and ruin my precious Glock. But, then again, in my humble opinion, as long as I use quality reloads, I should have a good chance of continuing of having a good, shooting experience.

By "quality" reloads, I mean reloads from the major shooting ranges (i.e., those with multiple branches, like Jethro Dionisio, Armscor, etc.). If the shooting range is a small, mom and pop or backyard affair, I think it is worth the risk of buying reloads from major reloaders (i.e., Stronghand, Magnus, etc.), and just bringing it to the range and paying for the corkage fees.

I do make it a habit of cleaning a pistol thoroughly (especially the barrel) within 24-hours of each shooting session. My late father told me you have that amount of time before the corrossive components of the powder residue starts corroding and pitting your barrel. I don't know if that's true, but it does make for a great shooting habit.

One problem I do see with using reloads, is how dirty the gun can be afterwards, especially since I average firing 100 rounds per shooting session. The dirt gets into the nook and crannies of my unit, so I have to detail strip it every time I clean it, to remove the smell and the soot. Strangely, though, the barrel doesn't seem to be excessively fouled up after a shooting session. The barrel remains in excellent condition, with no pittings on it.

Glock 23 Machine Pistol Configuration Part Two

'Heavier Recoil Springs'
I was thinking of putting an extra power recoil spring to reduce wear and tear on the gun especially since I am now firing full auto on it, it sort of makes sense. However, it turns out that there are some adverse effects when using heavier recoil springs, like increased muzzle flip and felt recoil based on this advise from Springtech: http://www.custom-glock.com/springtech.html

They recommend using a LOWER strength recoil spring to reduce felt recoil and muzzle flip, but that would increase the wear and tear on the gun, especially if I use it at full-auto. As it is, I think I will stay with the stock recoil spring for now.

'Alternative Extended Magazine Option'
They are selling those 22 round .40S&W magazines at Makati Cinema Square (MCS) at insane prices, so on alternative to getting higher capacity magazines at cheaper prices for your Compact-sized Glock would be to:
a) Buy magazines used for the full-sized Glocks;
b) Buy magazine extensions for it.

Magazines for full sized Glocks will fit into the compact units, meaning a Glock 22 mag will fit into a Glock 23, if you don't mind the bottom of the mag extending out from your magwell. But then again, if are going to replace and extend the basepads, it wouldn't matter anyway. Trust Trade seems to offer the cheapest Glock magazines, I bought Glock 22 (with "Austria" markings ) Generation 4 magazines (with ambidextrous locking depressions) from them for only P1.7k (with flat basepads).

Take note, though, that removing the baseplates on the stock Glock magazines can be a pretty difficult thing to do, thanks to the over-zealous locking protrusions. In the end, I decided to just remove those protrusions using a cutter to make it easier to remove/install those basepads. I don't think this will affect the functionality of the unit, as the magazine spring tension should be enough to lock those basepads in place.

Glock 23 Machine Pistol Configuration Part One

'Glock Full Auto - Initial Shots'
I had an all-metal Fire Selector Switch for Glock (FSSG) that was given to me by a gunsmith (see "My Fab Defense KPOS Review Part 3" for the full story), and I wanted to try it out, just to see how full auto fire would be with a .40S&W caliber round and a compact frame like the Glock 23. The FSSG is currently stuck on full-auto mode only, I dare not have it fitted again to have select fire capability for fear that it will be ruined again.

I wanted to fire it free hand (i.e., without the help of a shoulder stock and/or front grip), only using my two hands. I haven't fired any pistol in full auto before, so I decided to take it slow, loading only three rounds into the magazines for every shot. I was afraid that if I load a full magazine, the worst will happen and I will start shooting the ceiling if the recoil was severe. I used my standard shooting settings: 13 meters, SWC-TC reloads.

When I fired the first shot, I was surprised at the violence of the recoil. Since I'm firing a .40S&W round, the recoil of three shots was severe, I could feel a tingling in my right hand. Muzzle climb was severe also: I aimed at the center, and the first shot was at center, the second higher, and the third out of the target board. I shot nine more rounds of three rounds per magazine for a total of twelve, and out of those twelve rounds, only seven hit the target board, two of which hit both ears of the target. I even tried aiming at the bottom of the target to compensate for the muzzle climb, but to no avail.



Lesson learned is you definitely cannot fire full auto using a .40S&W caliber in a compact pistol free hand, and hope to have decent accuracy, at least not at 13 meters. At this point, I decided to take a break, go outside, and buy a Fab Defense GLR 440 Stock. I wanted to see how much control a shoulder stock will give me when I shoot the pistol.

My Glock 23 Review Part Four

'Better Shooting'
Went to the shooting range to test my Glock using the NY1 Trigger Spring, 3.5 lb. Connector and Tungsten Guide Rod setup. I used new, Semi-Wad Cutter Full Metal Jacket (SWC-FMJ) rounds labeled as +P rounds, and I'm guessing they were the standard 180 grain bullets. Distance was 13 meters, 100 rounds were fired and no malfunctions were found.

Pic below is using the left hand, 50 rounds

Pic below is using the right hand, also 50 rounds


I definitely shot better using the NY1 Trigger and 3.5 lb. Connector setup. My groupings were tighter, and the difference between my left and right hands were not so obvious anymore. The smoother and lighter break of the setup was easier to shoot, though I still used slow fire (3-5 seconds between shots) method as I still didn't trust myself to shoot as well firing at a faster rate.

The trigger still feels like a two-stage trigger, but it did not affect my shooting, obviously. I guess I will be staying with this setup, and just mess around with the Striker and Striker Block Springs if I am going to lighten further that trigger break.

'Tungsten Guide Rod and Recoil'
My only complaint with this shooting session, was the recoil. I found it to sting my hands a lot more so now than in my first shooting session. I got the feeling like when you hit a solid object with a steel bar, and the bar sorts of vibrates and transfers that vibration into your hands. It felt very much like that. It got so bad that after the first 50 rounds, my hands started shaking a bit. I tried to rest it out, but the shaking took a bit of time to dissipate, and I wonder how I was still able to shoot well despite that. Thanks perhaps to the Glock's fast lock time.

My Glock 23 Review Part Three

'Trigger Disassembly'
I wanted to install a New York Trigger on my unit, and to do so I needed to disassemble the Trigger Assembly. To do this, I first needed to remove the three pins on the frame of a typical Glock: The Trigger Pin, the Trigger Housing Pin and the Locking Block Pin. I was able to easily remove both the Locking Block and Trigger Housing Pins with a slight tap with the help of a small nail. However, I had a hard time removing the Trigger Pin. After a couple of hard taps and nothing still happening, I decided to check in the internet as I felt something was wrong. Besides, I didn't want to ruin my Glock just because of something I missed. When in doubt, check the internet.

And true enough, it turns out that you don't need or want to force out that Trigger Pin. The key to removing it, is to sort of move the Slide Stop Lever back and forth while maintaining force against that Trigger Pin. After a couple of wiggling, the Trigger Pin just sort of slid out easily out of the frame. Its an alignment issue, apparently the spring on the Slide Stop Lever sometimes gets caught in the groove of the Trigger Pin:
- http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1184726

The internet can really be such a great help, I sometimes wonder how things would've been if it weren't around.

'New York 1 Trigger'
I thought about tinkering with the Glock trigger because I wanted to be able to shoot quickly and accurately with it. I read in some respectable sources that experts say the best trigger job available for the Glock would be a so-called "New York 1 Trigger (NY1)", coupled with a 3.5 lb. Connector. When I saw a NY1 Trigger available locally during the recent Gun Show, I immediately bought it as a first step of finding that "ideal" trigger.

The standard, Out of the Box trigger for a Glock 23 is a light slack, followed by a heavy, squishy break, or something like, "light-light-heavier-heavier squishy-break". What the NY1 Trigger does, is make that light slack heavier, or something like, "heavy-heavy-heavier-even heavier squishy-break". It makes the Glock trigger a little bit safer because of that heavier trigger slack pull.

My Glock 23 Review Part Two

'Stiff Magazine Spring'
Of the two magazines that came with the unit, I had no problem loading on one with all 14 rounds (both had +2 magazine basepads). The other magazine, however, would only load up to 12 rounds, and no more. I figured something could be wrong internally in the magazine, so I disassembled it. I couldn't find anything wrong with it, though, so I re-assembled it again.

After re-assembly, there was a slight improvement in that the magazine would now load 13 rounds, but I had trouble loading the last round. I decided to just let the magazine stay loaded with 13 rounds for a couple of days, allow the spring to soften up a little, and maybe I would be able to load all 14 rounds later.

After two days, I tried to load the 14th round, but it still wouldn't go in. I finally disassembled the magazine, then separated all the parts individually. Again, couldn't find anything wrong, so I re-assembled the magazine, then tried loading the magazine again. The 14th round finally was able to fit into the magazine, but only after a lot of pushing and handling.

Left it again for a couple of days, then removed the rounds, and put them back in again. I was able to load the 14th round, though still with a bit of difficulty. I don't know what happened with this particular magazine, probably some tolerance or fit issues as the other magazine was working fine.

'Disassembly and Trigger'
It turns out that all that was needed to be able to consistently and quickly disassemble the gun was a lot of practice. After disassembling/assembling the gun again and again, I can now do it on the first attempt. One thing good about disassembling/assembling the Glock, is that you do not have to take out/in any disassembly lever before you can slide out, like on the 1911 or my P250. Its so simple: Nothing to take out/in, no loose lever, just slide out, and then slide in. No doubt in my mind that this is the easiest gun to disassemble/assemble that I have tried out so far.

My Glock 23 Review Part One

I've always wanted to own a Glock, ever since I first started hearing about it a lot in the mid 80s. It was relatively new then, the first truly commercially successful "plastic" gun. Considering that before that time, the most successful gun was the M1911 family of automatic pistols, which by then was already 70 years old.

The polymer frame, and the relatively new trigger system was just so different, so high-tech. Even more impressive was that its success, as it was then slowly being adopted by more and more law enforcement and military agencies all around the world.

When I finally could afford one a couple of years ago, the supply of the pistol to the Philippines suddenly dried up, when the company decided to stop distribution of the unit in the country due to some controversy over some of the guns bought here ending up in Japan. So I had to wait a couple more years to finally get one, when the gun became available again.

Its a Glock 23, in .40 S & W, with what looks like a 3rd Generation frma. The licensing and release of the gun was an adventure in itself, one that I will relate later. For now, however, I am just going to review the gun first.

'First Impressions'
I'm impressed with the gun box that comes with it. It square with highly rounded edges, and has the company name "Glock" in big letters on the front. The unit came with:
- Two magazines;
- A cleaning brush tip;
- Instruction and other manuals in a sealed envelope;
- Magazine Sleeve;