'For Shooting Reloads on Glock'
If you look around the local internet firearms forums or local sales/auction sites, you will notice that most of them recommend the use of these barrels so you can shoot reloads on Glock pistols. Glock pistols come from the factory with its own patented type of "Polygonal Rifling", which they claim lessen friction between the barrel and the bullet, thus increasing the velocity of the bullet as it leaves the barrel.
Unfortunately, such rifling tends to build up more deposits in the barrel at a faster rate, which, if the build up is sufficient enough, could cause certain types of catasthropic failures during firing in one form, or the other. This is the reason why Glock in their manual specify that lead bullets NOT be used using the stock or factory barrel.
The aftermarket Lone Wolf barrels, on the other hand, are made with conventional rifling, and thus will accummulate fouling at a slower rate. Because of this, it is safer to use with lead bullets. Since most, if not all reloads use lead bullets, then people assume that you can use Lone Wolf barrels with reloads. This turns out to be not 100% true, as we shall see later.
'Failure To Feed Problems'
I own two Lone Wolf barrels, one for my Glock 23, and another for my Glock 22. I bought them not necessarily because I wanted to shoot reloads on them (thankfully), but because they are threaded, and I wanted to use compensators on my guns. Both have one thing in common, and that is they consistently have Failure To Feed (FTF) problems on both of my Glocks when using reloaded ammo.
What happens is that the slide fails to fall into battery when chambering a round, with the slide being stopped about a quarter an inch from the tip of the barrel. At this point, the slide is LOCKED, it won't move forward, or backward, and requiring strong manipulation to unlock. The best way I found was to hold the slide with one hand, and then slap your other hand into the frame. They do get cleared eventually, but with a lot of effort, and considerable delays in your shooting time.
Most of the time I ask the Range Officer or somebody else to clear the FTF. The failure rate is about 10-20%, meaning for every 50 rounds of reloaded rounds I fire on these LWD barrels, around 5-10 end up in FTFs.
'Smaller Chamber Diameters'
The reason for these FTF problems, is that these LWD Barrels have chamber diameters are on the lower end of the dimensional tolerances for .40S&W rounds, and since they have smaller diameters, these will have fit problems with reloaded rounds. This is because some reloaded rounds tend to have slight bulges on their cases which occur during the reloading process.
It doesn't mean that these rounds are "bad", its just that sometimes during reloading some portions of the case bulges out a bit when the bullet is inserted into the case. These bulges increases the size of the outer diameter of the case, and when these are paired with the smaller chamber diameters of LWD barrels, you will have fit problems, and thus the FTF issue.
Take note that I NEVER have any such FTF problems with reloads using the stock Glock barrel, and this is because Glock's barrels have chamber diameters that are either at optimum diameter, or at the higher end the chamber diameter specifications. Because of this, reloaded ammo with slight bulges on them do not result in interference or fit problems. That is part of the Glock's legendary reliability.
'Parting Shots'
Also take note that aside from these FTF Problems with reloaded ammo, I do NOT have any other problems with LWD Barrels. They are ACCURATE, work 100% RELIABLE WITH PRIME OR NEW AMMO. As of this writing, I have shot about 200+ rounds of Prime ammo in both of my LWD Barrels, IN FULL AUTO, and not once had it caused any problems for me.
Its not that you can't shoot reloads on your LWD Barrels. You can, but you need to cherry-pick each reloaded round by physically inspecting each for bulges, and discarding or replacing those that has them. Another way is to manually fit each reloaded round into the chamber, and then discard/replace those that don't fit well. You can do this if you have a spare LWD Barrel, or by removing the barrel from your pistol.
One possible solution I read about in the internet, was to have the chambers reamed, or widened by a Gunsmith. I asked one respected local Gunsmith (who will remain unnamed for now) about this service, and his advise was not to do it because the chambers will eventually "widen up" in time, so it would be redundant if you widen the chambers right away. Since he did not advice it, I did not push him on this issue, as also I am not sure if he was capable of doing it.
He said to just break in the gun with prime ammo as much as possible, and I have been trying to do that ever since. He did not specify how many rounds are needed, though, so I am doing it by trial and error, just keep shooting my LWD Barrels with prime or cherry-picked reloaded ammo until it finally starts to function 100% with ALL types of reloaded ammo.
I hope that this blog will inform everyone who intends to use LWD Barrels on their Glocks, so they will know what possible issues they face before buying these barrels, and make more informed decisions.
Related Posts:
--> Lone Wolf Glock 22 Barrel Chamber Reaming
Look at Glock Kabooms. Lone Wolf barrels have fully supported chambers and tighter tolerances to provide better lock up and accuracy in semi auto to "loosen up" the fit for full auto use you need to copy the dimensions of your original barrel's chamber, feed ramp and lug. You'll need to shoot a lot to loosen up that barrel unless you can afford a few thousand rounds of ammo and the time to shoot it. Just get yourself an accurate set of calipers, a variable speed dremel tool with a complete accessory kit and some different grades of polishes. Measure the original barrel's dimensions and compare it side by side to the Lone Wolf barrel Go Slow and Take Your Time and use the polishing compounds with the buffing wheels on low speed until you get comfortable and proficient just take your time and pace your progress and always test your fit with a dimensionally correct dummy round. Glocks aren't perfect they shoot anything because Glocks have loose tolerances like AKs. Seems like a lot of work but its sure as hell cheaper than a couple thousand rounds of ammo. If you don't wanna do any of this just get some Militec-1 lube "if it's good enough for the US Secret Service it's good enough for me"
ReplyDeleteThanks for the suggestion, might try that out one of these days.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Glock kB! issue, I have read a bit about it, and IMHO I think its really more of a problem with the shells themselves, rather than the barrel. I am basing this on the fact that 9mm Glock barrels have similar unsupported chambers as .40S&W barrels, and yet we don't see it as much with them. Chamber pressures for the 9mm and .40S&W rounds are also the same. Take a look at the pictures of the chambers of different Glocks on the pic on this page: http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/kb-notes.html
I have also seen issues with function with match chambered Glock barrels - they tend to run better quality factory ammo or carefully-sized reloads with jacketed bullets just fine, but I would prefer a looser chamber for reliability an any pistol that was a carry pistol. Some of these match chambers will give you a wicked jam with steel cased ammo. I would suggest having a good smith touch up the chamber with a standard-spec chamber reamer if you want better reliability with your reloads. As far as KBs, the .40 seems to be most common, and I wonder if a lot of that is the fact that the standard load in a .40 is pretty much as hot as you can go safely, and you know a lot of guys want to push the envelope. Most KBs are reloads, whatever the shooter may claim. The 9mm has a bigger margin between standard pressures and unsafe pressures.
ReplyDeleteI asked a respected gunsmith here in the Philippines to ream the chamber, but he disagreed and said the chamber will eventually widen up anyway. Wasn't also sure if he knows how to do it also. If the chamber doesn't loosen up the next hundred or so rounds, I intend to find another gunsmith to do it.
ReplyDeleteThe following information is posted on the LWD FAQ web site http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=FAQ%20page
ReplyDeleteI am sure you will find the following information useful. Specifically the last line.
Reloading Issues:
Remove the barrel from the slide. Drop a factory round into the chamber. If the factory round fits slightly lower than the top of the barrel hood you are looking good to go. If the factory round does not sit slightly below the top of the barrel hood you will need to return the barrel to LWD and we will fix it right away.
The problem is most likely caused by an expanded or swelled case head that has not been fully resized. Ammunition that is fired from an original Glock factory barrel produces (very) expanded case heads. This expansion occurs because of the large chamber used in Glock factory barrels. Many reloaders think they are full length resizing their brass but this simply is not true. The sizer die has a beveled area located at the entrance of the die mouth. This beveled area helps guide the straight walled cartridge into the die. The case rim is held with a shell holder. The area of the cartridge that is between this beveled area and the shell holder never gets resized completely.
If you drop your reload into a LWD barrel and the case head (rim) sits above the barrel hood this is a good indication your brass is bulged and not resized correctly. Here is 2 ways to fix this problem:
1 Run your loads through a case gauge before shooting. Many reloaders currently use Dillon or Midway stainless case gauges however these manufactures are known to have liberal tolerances. If your Dillon or Midway case gauge works with the LWD chamber you are good to go. If not, we recommend you use the EGW case gauge. The EGW is known to run tighter tolerances. Once the reload is fired from the LWD barrel you should not have a feed problem again.
2 You can return your barrel to Lone Wolf and include 4 or 5 dummy rounds of your reloads (no powder or primer) and we will open up the chamber to accommodate your loaded round.
*If you are reloading 40 S&W or 10mm we recommend you use the Redding GRX push through die to remove 100% of the case budge.
Hi. Thanks very much for the information you provided. I did the first thing your quote from the site asked, which is to put a factory ammo on the LWD Barrel's chamber, and see if it sits slightly below the barrel hood, and my barrels passed this test.
ReplyDeleteAlso, from the page I see that LWD does reaming of the chambers for USD 30 + shipping. Unfortunately, I am in the Philippines right now, and no way I can legally send my barrels back and forth to them.
Makes me kind of wonder why LWD just didn't put their chambers to minimum or maximum size in the first place. That would've likely made their barrels as reliable as the stock or factory Glock barrels. I have shot reloads in full auto out of those factory Glock barrels, and have not once had any problems with them.
From your link, LWD did also suggest shooting +P and/or +P+ rounds on their barrels to break them in, or loosen up those chambers, but those are kinda expensive here, will try to do it if I can find reasonably cheap ones.
Hi, sir. Didn't realize who you were until just now. At any rate, I like your barrels, I think they are good alternatives to the stock or factory barrels, except for that one issue with reloaded rounds. Prime ammo here in the Philippines are relatively expensive, around USD 0.50 each, which is why we want to use reloads as much as possible.
ReplyDeleteIf you can find a way to make your barrels work well with reloads, then that would make a good product like yours even better.
The problem you are experancing is caused by swelled brass cases. This is easy to prove. Shoot a box of new ammunition through the LWD barrel (full auto, semi auto or single shot, it doesent matter). When you are finished, pick up this once fired brass and reload it. Now take out this test load and shoot it again. You will see the issues you have previously described will be gone. The gun will run flawless.
ReplyDeleteIf you plan to use brass that has been fired through a factory Glock barrel I highly recommend you use the Redding GRX push through die to remove 100% of the case budge. This will 100% resolve the feed issues you are experancing.
ReplyDeleteMr. Shepard, okay, I will try it out one of these days.
ReplyDeleteTake note, though, that I do not reload my own ammo. Here in the Philippines, the gun ranges themselves sell reloaded ammo, and that is where we usually buy them.
We can also buy new ammo at the gun range, but of course they are more expensive, more than twice as much. We usually leave the fired brass (whether reloaded or new) at the firing range, since they do the reload and we don't, anyway.
To follow your suggestion, though, we CAN get the fired brass, and have them reloaded elsewhere and bring it to the range. However, the shooting range will charge us for a certain fee similar to a "Corkage Fee" for ammo not bought from them.
Good suggestion. This one I can suggest to the shooting range which does the reloading, and where I buy the reloaded ammo from.
ReplyDeleteI had the same issues with my lwd barrel for a Glock 30 (.45 acp). Loaded cartridges would seat all the way in the chamber and would "stick" when I tried to get them out; turned out that the bullets I was using (Berry's flat point) were not seated far enough in the shell. Once I seated them deeper than usual (compared to factory loads) the problem was solved. I also whistled a box of 230 gr. factory loads through the barrel with no problem.
ReplyDeleteHi rhk111,
ReplyDeleteWere you able to find out which Philippine reloaders have and use the Redding GRX push through die ?
Hi. Nope, mainly because I shoot only on one shooting range, and I use their reloads. I asked them about it, but the Range Officers there have no idea about it because the reloading is done at another site.
ReplyDeleteHere is an interesting idea I want to try out with regards to "screening" reloads for my LWD barrel. If I can get one soon, I will blog about it:
- http://www.egwguns.com/chamber-checkers/7-hole-ammo-chamber-checkers/
I have a LWD barrel for my 27 and have zero issues with it. The bulge in the case actually comes from firing the round. I have reloaded 100s of thousands of rounds for all types of calibers. All brass will bulge when fired. The quality of different reloading dies are more of an issue with the bulge problems. There is also the human factor in the reloading process. If you don't have your dies set right and do not cycle the handle on the press all the way then you will end up with incomplete or improperly resized brass. This alone will contribute greatly to failure to feed issues. Bullet style also plays a large roll in how the round feeds into the chamber. Lets not forget that brass stretches in all directions after firing, so is the case too long? I think more of the problem with failure to feed issues are with folks not paying enough attention to their reloading practices. I'm not saying this is the only cause... Just a frequent problem. Another thing to ponder is how many times has the brass been reloaded? Brass will eventually weaken from firing and working the case also resulting in the case bulging during the reloading process. Typically the case will bulge just behind the bullet if this is the issue. As mentioned above, the push through die will or should correct the bulge in the base of the brass.
ReplyDeleteReloading practices DO differ, David. However, based on my experience, the stock Glock barrels are a lot more tolerant of different reloaded rounds than the Lone Wolf barrels, meaning reloaded rounds that would end up in FTF in Lone Wolf barrels will still work without a hitch on the stock Glock barrels ...
ReplyDeleteI agree 100%. LWD barrels are held to a tighter tolerance and are less forgiving then the Glock barrels. Shooting reloads that are not yours definitely adds to the equation. Without being able to control the quality of the reloads leaves the LWD barrel at a disadvantage over the Glock barrel. I love my LWD barrel. I bought it to shoot cast, as I cast my own rounds. The accuracy of the barrels are nothing short of outstanding. But with accuracy comes a price (they are more finicky with the rounds they like). Off the subject a bit... are you stationed in the Phillipines? It has been years since I've been there. I was stationed in Japan and seemed like we spent more time in the PI then in Japan. Kinda miss being over seas. Good luck with the LWD barrel. Hopefully you have found a reasonable solution to the FTF's.
ReplyDeleteYup, I'm here in the Philippines, David. Nice to know you've been here before. Things are going along nicely nowadays, I hope it continues to we can finally be one of those Tiger Asian countries.
ReplyDeleteI did try reaming my Glock 22 Lone Wolf barrel, and it made the FTFs easier to clear, but they were still occurring. Been having 2nd thoughts about having it reamed AGAIN as the chamber might end up oversized, but anyway, I might try it one of these days.
I have done extensive shooting with the Lone Wolf Match barrel and the newer GT barrel in my Glock. Both chamber my reloads without difficulty. I have used a variety of lead, plated and FMJ from several manufactures. The only rounds that would not drop into the chambers were measured to be out of SAAMI spec or the bullet was not seated to a depth that would allow the bullet to not contact the rifling. Let's not blame the barrel for ammo that is dimensionally out of spec. If your Glock barrel will allow you to shoot poorly dimensioned ammo, I would still recommend correcting improperly sized reloads for greater reliability.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that a lot of people are seeing this problem only with the Lone Wolf barrels. Even hickok45 encountered failures on his LWD barrrels using reloaded ammo.
ReplyDeleteNow, these reloaded ammunition are made using standard equipment used all throughout the industry, and one would think the ammo would be made more or less within the tolerance set by the machine or equipment during the reloading process.
If the ammo indeed are indeed out of specs, what standards are to be used for determining if they are within or out of specifications? Can you provide direct links to them?
Had 2 LWD barrels in a G35 break. First one cracked the chamber area on ejection side , 15,000 rds
ReplyDeletesecond one broke off locking lug 11,000. sent in info first tim to LWD with pics and was ignored. Just sent in the second with pics ? Will wait and see.
Like the product, but barrels should last longer. Have 50,000 threw a stock barrel all the same load.
No a presure issue as loads are chronoed every patch 172 P.F.
When it comes to fouling of the barrels.....first, most people I know DO NOT use lead projectiles for re-loading. I myself use a premium bullet. As such, I take issue with the credibility of fouling. That being said, I have two Lone Wolf barrels for my Glock 29. One, a .40 conversion barrel and the other a 6" 10mm barrel. Neither of these barrels are as accurate as the factory Glock barrel. i hope to change my recipe for the 6" barrel as I intend to use it for hunting (extra velocity). Cycling of both barrels are no worse or better than the factory barrels.
ReplyDeleteThe other issue with "reloads" is bullet diameter. I most frequently hand load Nosler or Hornady bullets. I made a bad decision and bought projectiles from Barry's Manufacturing. Their copper plated lead projectiles measure .401" diameter, which causes FTF issues. Hand loading a premium projectile, (in my humble opinion) offers an experienced loader the option of a premium round made specific for the pistol, that can be better than factory. The lesson learned regarding Barry's Bullets is . .. ... don't buy cheap crap and expect it to perform like the good stuff
ReplyDeleteI have a had a g 19 and now have a g 34 both are equipped with Lone Wolf barrels I have no such problem. Having the same problems you have
ReplyDeleteI would suggest that if one has problems chambering reloads, that they do not meet SAAMI spec.
ReplyDeleteI have and use two Lone Wolf barrels in my Glock with out any problems with my lead reloads. Reliability is excellent and has not been compromised with the Lone Wolf barrels. While the Lone Wolf chambers are slightly smaller than the Glock barrel, they are within SAAMI specs and have never been a problem. While I can not say Lone Wolf has never made a barrel out of spec, I would tend to blame the reloads.
I would not recommend modifying a chamber to accommodate bad ammo. Fix the ammo problem. And as far as "loosening up", chambers do not enlarge with use, assuming the ammo is within normal pressures, including +P, no matter how many rounds are fired. If you fine your chamber has enlarged with use, it has been abused and is close to failure.
If you would purchase and use the Lee Factory crimp die to use as a fourth die with whatever brand of die your prefer, you will find that bulged cases, common in barrels that aren't fully supported will be a thing of the past. The Lee Factory Crimp die should be renamed the Lee Full Length Ironing die. I reload 380, 38 super, 38 special, 357 magnum, 45 acp and 44 magnum in pistol calibers. I do not use a single round that hasn't been run through the 4th die or Lee Factory Crimp die. I shoot competitively with much success in my club matches and I haven't used a round of factory ammo in 6 years and have had zero issues with my 1911s in 38 super and 45 acp, my 9mm Witness, my Model 21 SF Glock, or any other of my semi auto pistols, including my carry pistols. I don't have any stock or other connection to Lee so I'm not saying this to boost their sales but considering the amount of experience I have with their pistol dies, all of which include the 4th die as I have a 4 hole turret press that I load pistol ammo on. I drop test every round I use for matches, including rifle ammo, and rounds that are treated to a trip through the Lee Factory Crimp die drop in and drop out without assistance 100% of the time. I pull the barrels from my STI and Caspian 1911's and my Glock 21 and use them for case gauges. There is no more accurate way to assure proper function than to check it in the barrel it will be used in. Even revolvers can benefit from the "ironing" process. My S&W 929 loads more quickly with the ironed rounds as they are basically the same size as new brass and aren't swelled to the point of creating resistance as the fall into the cylinders. If you are having FTF or any function issues, try pulling your barrel and drop testing your rounds before you use them and if you either fix the bulged ones or don't use them, you'll eliminate any problems caused by misshapen brass cases.
ReplyDeletehave you tried true weight gun relaoding for ammo/ speed edge...
ReplyDeleteHey bud, my 19 with an LWD did the same thing, I just polished up the chamber and the feed ramp and the problem went away. I’m running their comp and barrel combo with a 15lb recoil spring. It’s buttery not that I got past the FTF issues
ReplyDeletetried that drop test on my new stainless LWD barrel for my 21. two different factory ammos stuck in the breech. you could turn the barrel upside down and shake it and they would not fall out. im not returning the barrel because I don't want more of the same. Sorry Lone Wolf, no more for me
ReplyDelete